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Feb 16 16 11:21 PM

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Hi Preparing for game on Sat and query arises from rules read through (more that have been asked before ?) Regarding charges which takes precedence Orders ? Or Brigadiers charge limit ? I have an Average Brigadier with Assault order (limited to 2 charges) and 3 (or more) of his Units start in charge range. Assault order states units must attempt to charge once in range but Average Cndr only gets 2 charge orders which applies ? All MUST charge ? Or ONLY 2 can charge ? Cheers
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#1 [url]

Feb 17 16 2:36 AM

You can only send in what the brigadier's rating allows ( ex 3, avg 2, and poor 1 ). It doesn't matter how many units are in range, his rating is what counts. If you need more units to charge, just have the army commander in range. You can then charge additional units equal to his rating.

Bill

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#4 [url]

Feb 18 16 6:28 AM

The average Brigadier can order two charges and the third infantry unit can attempt to charge with a 1D6 roll of 5-6.  Cavalry units can attempt to charge with a 1D6 roll of 4-6.

(See Paragraph 7.2, page 65, "b) EXCEPTIONS:".)

Last Edited By: John Tyson Feb 18 16 4:17 PM. Edited 2 times.

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#7 [url]

Feb 21 16 7:47 PM

Actually, the aforementioned article 7.2 dice roll applies to units that are out side of a generals command range. So, it does not address the original question. 


In the initial example the average brigadier general wants three of units to charge. If all three units are in command radius of the BGen then the article 7.2 exception does not apply. Also, 7.3a is explicit '...an average general two charges...'

So, if you want the third to charge, then one has to make sure that this third unit is out of command range (sounds a little gamey I know but...), or have a CC order the third unit to charge.
Rod

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#8 [url]

Feb 21 16 11:57 PM

Hi Iron Duke

Hmmmm yes that only covers units out of Cmd radius ??
So would Command Charge limits not also apply even if a unit is out of range ie to attempt to order them to charge would still count against Cmdrs limit ?

Cheers

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#9 [url]

Feb 22 16 1:53 AM

That is a most interesting question. I am surmising that the intent of our esteemed author was to allow for battalion commander's initiative when outside of the commanders command radius.


Nonetheless, I would say that if the independent battalion is attacking the same target (as the general) and exercising its initiative as per article 7.2,  it would definitely count against the commanding generals limit. If it was a different target from the general then it would not count.

I must emphasize that this only my interpretation . However, if you read the notes at the end of this chapter; it was the authors intent to limit the number of unit charges by command radius and by command and control ability of generals. I believe this rule was instituted to mitigate the mass charges typical of many war game rules that benefit from the eye in the sky view of the battlefield and ignore the difficulties of actual battlefield control in a noisy and smoke filled environment. I think it is a good rule as it stands.

Last Edited By: IronDuke596 Feb 22 16 1:55 AM. Edited 1 time.

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#10 [url]

Feb 22 16 2:04 AM

SgtSteiner,


If I may respond to your query and with my complements to the Iron Duke. 

I consider once an average Brigadier has made his maximum number of orders, all remaining units are out of command range regardless of how close the third unit is physically to the Brigadier.  As I see it, the Brigadier has expended his capacity to issue orders and the third unit's battalion commander, in the absence of orders, has ordered a charge on his own initiative (depending upon the 1D6 die roll). 

I also, do not consider units that are outside the Brigadier's command radius, and have charged on their own initiative, as counting against the Brigadier's limit to order other units within his command radius.

This is just my opinion.  Hopefully, Mr. Brown will see this and clarify.

God bless,
John T.

Last Edited By: John Tyson Feb 22 16 2:08 AM. Edited 1 time.

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#11 [url]

Feb 22 16 2:23 AM

After further reflection, I think the Iron Duke has it correct about units within the Brigadiers command radius not taking the 1D6 roll. For example, an average Brigadier only orders one (1) unit to charge, the other units should not attempt to charge with a 1D6 roll, but assume that the Brigadier would have given them the order if he had desired.

However, on page 55, ASSAULT ORDER Requirements, second bullet, "Units may make formation changes, wheel, etc.  Once in a position to charge they must attempt to do so."


Again, maybe Mr. Brown will clarify.

God bless,
John T.

Last Edited By: John Tyson Feb 22 16 2:39 AM. Edited 1 time.

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#12 [url]

Feb 25 16 10:01 AM

Chipping in here,


Don't forget that multiple infantry battalions ordered to charge in "massed column" only count as one charge order. 

So an average brigadier can send in quite a lot of bodies if he deploys historically.

Bet you already knew this though!

Best whises,

Jeremy

 

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#13 [url]

Feb 25 16 6:54 PM

Hi Jeremy,

From what article did you get that notion?
I see nothing in 7.3 'General's Charge  Command Radius nor 7.9 Massed Column Charges that support your contention that multiple infantry battalions charging in massed column only count as one charge order. 
Cheers,
Rod

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#14 [url]

Feb 26 16 2:07 AM

I think that the number of units in a brigade on an "Assault" order that must charge depends on whether 50% have either moved toward the objective or have charged. If less than 50% have moved or charged and there is a unit within charge range, that unit must be either ordered to charge or attempt to charge with a 1D6 roll. If the 50% rule has been fulfilled, then no further charges are required.

Last Edited By: John Tyson Feb 26 16 2:20 AM. Edited 4 times.

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#15 [url]

Mar 2 16 2:33 PM

I'll have to look it up, if I'm wrong then we four otherwise perfectly intelligent adults have got this wrong for years. Thing is it works!


Let's catch up after I've read it again...  

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#16 [url]

Mar 3 16 4:26 PM

Hi Jeremy,


I'd never read the massed charge rule in the way that you chaps have but, clear though the rules are, they can sometimes be interpreted in more than one way.

Very interested to see if you can track down where it says: "Don't forget that multiple infantry battalions ordered to charge in "massed column" only count as one charge order. "

Cheers,

Paul

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DCRBrown

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#17 [url]

Mar 3 16 7:38 PM


Good discussion gentlemen.

My original intention was to limit the number of charges any one brigadier could throw in.

Massed charges are not classed as one charge - thus only an excellent brigadier may launch a massed charge of three battalions. A poor brigadier is deemed to lowly to be able to even coordinate such an attack.

However, I have for quite a while now allowed players to roll the 1D6 for any number of additional charges, above the brigadiers ability for battalions in command radius, (or out of command radius for that matter).

Hope that clarifies the issue.

DB

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#19 [url]

Mar 5 16 4:52 PM

Well that's a prime example of us just getting this plain wrong! 


However, in the larger games we tend to play we have decided to stick with our mistake as a house rule, especially where some brigades are pretty big, 8-12 units.
It just works for us. In smaller games with smaller brigades I totally get that this is the nub of the game ie Brigade General's decision making, obvious really.

We are about to play test some other house rules for Brigade General ability and have tested some house rules about first volley too.

I might post these up as a discussion. Hearing everyone else's house rules might be very interesting too.

Have fun out there,

Jeremy     

PS thanks for not "tearing me a new one" as happens on some forums... 

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#20 [url]

Mar 5 16 5:18 PM

warpaintjj wrote:
Well that's a prime example of us just getting this plain wrong! 

However, in the larger games we tend to play we have decided to stick with our mistake as a house rule, especially where some brigades are pretty big, 8-12 units.
It just works for us. In smaller games with smaller brigades I totally get that this is the nub of the game ie Brigade General's decision making, obvious really.

We are about to play test some other house rules for Brigade General ability and have tested some house rules about first volley too.

I might post these up as a discussion. Hearing everyone else's house rules might be very interesting too.

Have fun out there,

Jeremy     

PS thanks for not "tearing me a new one" as happens on some forums... 

Jeremy, 

I'm sure you're not the only one who has "House Rules."  I posted a house rule of mine not too long ago 
but only got one response, so I take it that most didn't care for it and are polite enough to remain silent.  There are a great bunch of gentlemen on this forum.

God bless,
John T.

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