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Aug 22 16 7:37 PM

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I wonder if anyone can help me with a couple of queries regarding Austrian combined grenadier battalions?

Did precedence play a part in deciding the position that the  companies occupied in the combined battalion?  For example,  were lower-numbered regiments considered senior to higher-numbered ones and were they therfore stationed on the right  of the unit?

Also, how was it decided which company would carry the standard?  Would it be carried by the company from the senior regiment (again I am assuming, perhaps incorrectly, that lower-numbered regiments were regarded as senior to higher-numbered ones)?

Last Edited By: General Slade Aug 22 16 8:38 PM. Edited 2 times

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#1 [url]

Aug 23 16 8:36 AM

Bonjour,


What an interesting question!

Napoleon Series said:

"Grenadier Divisionen in 1809

Battalion

2 Companies from the Following Regiments

Battalion Hohenlohe

1/29/38

Battalion Hahn

2/33/39

Battalion Bissingen

3/50/58

Battalion Scovaud

4/49/63

Battalion Stark

7/18/21

Battalion Mayblumel

8/22/60

Battalion Legrand

9/55/56

Battalion Wienawsky

11/11/47

Battalion Oklopsia (then Cappy)

12/20/23

Battalion Puteany

14/45/59

Battalion Nissel

15/28/57

Battalion Salomon

16/26/27

Battalion Georgy

17/36/42

Battalion Janusch

19/52/61

Battalion Brzezinsky

24/30/41

Battalion Leiningen

25/35/54

Battalion Scharlach

31/32/51

Battalion ?

34/37/48

Battalion von Muhlen

53/62

Battalion ?

13/40/43

Battalion ?

44/46

Grenadier Divisionen in 1813 - 1815

Battalion Frisch

1/12/57

Battalion Lanyi (then Kramer)

2/19/33

Battalion de Best

3/4/63

Battalion Moese

7/20/56

Battalion Jurissich (then Possman)

8/22

Battalion Portner

9/24/44

Battalion Hromada

10/29/40

Battalion Fischer

11/25/54

Battalion ?

13/38

Battalion Puteany

14/49/59

Battalion Berger

15/28/47

Battalion Welsperg

16/26/27

Battalion Oklopsia

17/18/21

Battalion ?

23/43

Battalion Brsesinsky (then Obermayer)

30/41/58

Battalion Purcell

31/51

Battalion Habinay

32/39

Battalion Kirchebetter

34/37/60

Battalion ?

35/36/42

Battalion Faber

48/52

Battalion Chimani

53/61/62

The relationship between the grenadiers and their regiments was maintained as much as possible in the pursuance of esperit de corps. Whereas grenadier regiments were raised in other countries, this was though by the KK army to be detrimental to the line infantry, and the regimental bonds were consequently continued.

Placed on the Napoleon Series: February 2001"

More info on link below.


Cheers,

Paul

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#2 [url]

Aug 23 16 12:16 PM

You're correct re lower number = seniority. But I'm not sure how that would relate to coy lineup.
I believe the grenadiers didn't have officially allocated flags so they took spares from senior regt, so would be regimentsfahne not leibfahne.

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#3 [url]

Aug 23 16 9:32 PM

Thanks for the replies guys. Until I learn different I guess what I will do is put the lowest number on the right, the highest on the left and give the standard to whoever is in the middle. Then again, if the grenadiers used spare standards from the senior regiment it suggests that the senior regiment would probably be the one to carry the standard so I need to put them in the middle?

I have a bad feeling that whichever one I opt for it will turn out to be the wrong choice.

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#4 [url]

Aug 23 16 10:57 PM

It was all organised on a fairly adhoc basis on the outbreak of a war. There was no standing grenadier battalion organisation until 1810. So, given the way these things worked, put the senior company on the right etc. As far as flags went, it was a case of what was to hand - many regiments would not necessarily be garrisoned in their home district. Each battalion had an Ordinarfahne, so the flags all looked the same. However of course, you are talking about the colour party. The Hofkriegsrat in Vienna would appoint the battalion staff on the outbreak of war or in 1810, as required: 1 commander, 1 battalion adjutant, 3 medical staff, 1 Stabsfuhrer (who carried the flag), 3 fouriers (accountants) 1 orderly and 1 servant. So, it would seem likely that the commander and Stabsfuhrer would match! I suppose the 2 Zimmerleute in the colour party would be from whichever company the flag was positioned with. I will have a look into this.      

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#5 [url]

Aug 24 16 6:34 AM

Thanks Dave. Much appreciated. Yes, I am basically wondering whether my colour party on my command stand should be from the senior regiment or from whichever regiment is stationed in the middle of the line.

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