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Oct 29 04 11:53 AM

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All you keen(?) painters out there in Leadland......

Having started on Airfix/Humbrol enamels (1970s), switched to artists' oils (early 1990s) and then - very quickly (I'm definitely not an oils person!!!) - turned to artists' acrylics, I'm now thinking of using dedicated modelling brands - Vallejo, Foundry, GW etc - to cut down the mixing, especially of browns and greens, and achieve better consistency of colour. However, I'm stuck for which red (British infantry coat) and dark blue (RA coat).

I was using Winsor & Newton "Finity" Red Oxide for British infantry rank-and-file (gives a nice "weathered" look in 15mm, but only so-so in 28mm); and Dana-Rowney "Cryla" Prussian Blue for Continentals - and Hessians obviously - but it never looked quite right for British gunners and infantry facings. Just not....well....royal enough.

So - any suggestions?

Thanks

RtL
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#1 [url]

Oct 29 04 3:59 PM

I use GW paints for British scarlet - a base coat of Red Gore, followed by a first highlight of Blood Red, then Blazing Orange (or the old Blood Angels Red if yoou can get your hands on it - it's slightly more "red" than "orange") and Fiery Orange for the final highlight (usually watered down quite heavily, unless you want a really faded scarlet colour). For blue, I use the Foundry "Deep Blue" 3-colour pack or, in the GW range (and for a slightly lighter blue finish), Regal Blue followed by successive highlights of Ultramarine Blue and Hideous Blue. I suspect the blue required for Royal Artillery should be much darker, but for simplicity's sake I paint all my AWI artillery crews in the same Deep Blue, whether Yank or Brit.

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Rudorff

Brigadier

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#2 [url]

Oct 29 04 7:08 PM

RtL, One of those subjective questions where you'll probably get as many different methods as you get posters. For what it's worth I would do the Artillery using Vallejo Dark Prussian Blue (which isn't really that dark) with a touch of Rotring Artists Acrylic black ink for a base coat (you really only need a touch of it, this ink seems to go for ever), then lighten original mix with DPB and do highlights, then either 1. a very, very, very light drybrush with a pale flesh/unbleached linen type of colour or 2.lighten mix with Miniature Paints Royal blue.

The first way gives a really nice weathered look, whilst the second gives a deeper, richer look (but I'd probably use a couple of highlight coats, lightening the last one further with a touch of white.

I've never really got a decent red finish that I was happy with, but I once did a quite nice battalion of SYW Hanoverian Regt.Garde, where I used a grey undercoat, then painted in all the creases with black, then washed a very dark red and progressively highlighted by using same red and mixing in orange. My memory when I finished the unit was that nice as it was, it wasn't worth the effort required, so I switched to French in light grey.

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#3 [url]

Oct 29 04 9:57 PM

RtL
I also use Vallejo dark Prussian blue and for red try 926 red mixed with 859 cadmium maroon to darken or 947 vermilion to lighten. To differentiate officers coats I just use the latter.
John

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#4 [url]

Nov 2 04 7:58 PM

Thanks guys - something to chew over there I think! I always find it strange that nobody has ever really produced a dedicated "British Red" for the 18th century and the Napoleonic Wars. I can recall Humbrol did a British Scarlet in their enamels range, supposedly for officer's coats, but it was very orange and looked more appropriate to the modern-day Foot Guards.

RtL

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#5 [url]

Nov 2 04 7:59 PM

Foundry do loads of reds and scarlets but the consistency is very bad and they don't cover a black undercoat. Of course if you use a white undercoat.....

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#6 [url]

Nov 2 04 10:38 PM

Andrea color do a 'Napoleonic red' which I think is intended for British.
IIRC, I used it as the highlight over a brick red for the rank and file and as the base coat for the officers. That was 6mm mind you, not giants

Swampster

Swampster

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#7 [url]

Nov 2 04 10:46 PM

Giles,

Funnily enough, I stopped using Humbrol enamels because the "red" reds never gave good enough coverage on black-undercoated 15mm figures (though they did have a wine colour - think British officer's sash - that gave a very good deep red for ECW figures). Everyone I've asked about Foundry in the past has said how weak their reds are.

Swampster,

Thanks, I was hoping someone from the GdeB side might have a different method. As you say, size matters! The red oxide I'd been using on 15s looks too brown on 25s - but does do well for Continentals in captured British uniforms.

RtL

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Eclaireur

Brigadier

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#8 [url]

Nov 3 04 8:38 AM

RtL,
I still use the Humbrol enamel range which must make me a real throwback
My British 28mm troops are painted with three layers: a base coat of 73 which is a kind of Guards maroon (really the colour that sashes should be); a 50/50 mix of 73 and 60 (which is the 'British red' you referred to) followed by a highlighting coat on seams, elbows etc. I used to use unmixed 60 as the highlight, but I now put some orange in it. I have come to the conclusion, looking at paintings at the NAM, that something orangey is most appropriate.
It is certainly the case that painting bright colours like red, yellow or white with enamels is hard work. My gunners and blue coated folk, I have hitherto done with only two layers.
regards
EC

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#9 [url]

Nov 3 04 12:30 PM

EC,

I have to say if it were not for the reduced availability and their annoying habit of solidifying after one session (especially the browns), I'd still be using Humbrol enamels myself. I always found they gave a sound matt finish (some artists' acrylics can be quite shiny) and their ranges of blues and buff/sand tones were particularly good. The big plus for me with acrylics is being able to thin the paint and clean the brushes with plain water - I lost count of how many jars of thinner I used to go through with the enamels!

Once again, thanks to all those who have replied.

RtL

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#10 [url]

Nov 3 04 5:53 PM

paint

I'm slowly making the transition from Humbrol to Vallejo having resisted for years. I've never had any problem painting with Humbrol though miss the days when you could buy the Authentic range which included British Scarlet and Rifle Green etc.

I would have continued but Humbrol have now reformulated their range for airbrushing which has reduced the pigmentation significantly to the point that where one coat would do in the past two or even three are now required.

Incedentaly I found 104 Oxford blue highlighted with 109 WW1 French blue plus ultra highlight of 109 plus white to be a good combination.

I did a bit of research into acrylics and chose the Vallejo range for their ultra high pigmentation. When thinned to the correct consitency they flow beautifully and cover like nothing else I've experienced. I'm still getting used to the idea of not being able to blend the colour on the figure but all told I think I prefer them to enamels not least 'cos they dry so fast and I'm slowly learning a new palette.

There are conversion chart for Humbrol to Vallejo but take them with a pinch of salt – I've not found them to be that accurate and am basing my blues on dark Prussian 899 (I think) not the given equivalent of Humbrol 104 which in acrylics dries lighter than the enamel version.

I'd be interested to hear of any other favorite colour matches eg rifle green?

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#11 [url]

Nov 3 04 11:34 PM

There are a few colours that I haven't yet found a match in Vallejo - possibly because the range is so big. I haven't really found a pale blue I'm happy with (have gone for Foundry, despite the poorer covering power). For dark green, I went withAndrea (again). They do a Napoleonic green. Not really dark enough for rifle green, but I use it for my Russians and stuff like dragoons (though higghlighted differently). It is a lovely matt colour - far better than 'Dark Angels Green' from the Evil Empire IMHO.

Swampster

Swampster

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#12 [url]

Nov 4 04 8:05 AM

I converted to Vallejo from Humbrol earlier this year, but have reverted to the enamels for undercoating (black, very thinned), boots and shakos (avoids the shiny toe syndrome - the acrylics are too fragile until varnished) and metallics - the coverage of Vallejo silver when thinned is seriously inferior to the Humbrol.

I'm still trying to find a good replacement for the old French blue though, even if the very slight colour variations achieved in my figures while experimenting actually looks quite passable (and probably authentic, given the dyeing processes of the time). I'll address this issue of redcoats when I do my first Swiss battalion.

Mark

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#13 [url]

Nov 4 04 12:41 PM

Undercoating

Milhaud

I agree with you regarding the undercoating process – acrylic doesn't dry hard enough to use as an undercoat IMHO. Currently I'm using a white cellulose primer which dries even harder than enamel to give a good key on the bare metal followed by brush painted Humbrol matt black. (I've tried Nitromors on figures in need of a repaint and the paint stripper gets through enamel no trouble but cellulose is more resiliant).

Thanks for the tip on metallics. As I mentioned in my earlier posts I would have very happily stayed with Humbrol had they not thinned the mix.

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#14 [url]

Nov 4 04 12:52 PM

I am quite happy with the GW spray black primer (used a car paint primer once, back in the days when White Dwarf recommended other people's products - disasterous). Depending on how many figures you try to cram in at one time you may need to do some touching up, but the coverage works well under acrylics.

I remember Humbrol Oxford Blue very well. GW have a "Midnight Blue" (I think, or at least used to have) which comes close. I bought some Humbrol acrylics in a sale last year, and they all seem to be water with the odd bit of pigment floating around.

Giles

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