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Nov 24 14 9:43 AM

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Hi chaps,

Something cropped up in our last game which I'm appreciate some thoughts on.

Prussian infantry within charge range (10cm) of Saxon artillery.  They've been taking cannister fire for a couple of moves but the Prussians declare a charge.

On the way in, they take fire from the Defenders (the artillery).  The artillery roll a 1, long range fire.  It all seems straightforward to me.  The guns fire as effectively as at long range.

However, my opponents didn't agree with that.  I rationalised it as the charge is launched early in the turn sequence, than usual firing phase, so perhaps the guns weren't loaded properly yet for enough to fire as if at cannister range.

My chums argued that perhaps the defenders fire only should really apply to units other than artillery (? Nah smiley: frown).  They said it seemed quite unreasonable to make artillery fire as if at long range when they'd been blasting away with cannister for two moves previous.  

I said though that its all about being caught on the hop before they were ready to fire and that being forced to fire as if at long range is just a way of saying that any fire was a bit ragged and haphazard due to being caught before ready.

Artillery seems very powerful as it is without assuming that any defending fire from them should always be cannister.

I think the rules are fairly clear but gave way due to several opponents disagreeing with me and allowed them to fire at cannister range.  The attacking Prussians took three hits, failed to charge and legged it as they were then on over 50% casualties.  

What do others think?

You can see the incident in the left rearground in the picture below as 2/Kanitz Inf Regt launches their assault against a single Saxon gun model. 

image

[It was all very nice natured and all that.  I don't want to give the impression it was heated.  We are gentlemen sirs smiley: smile ]

Cheers,

Kev


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#1 [url]

Nov 24 14 12:21 PM

I will reread the rules section, but my first response would be that your way would have been the correct way. The rule as written says you dice for distance, it does not say anything about how your actual moving distance would change that.
As a member of a gaming company we always say play as written, do not try and interpret the rules. Phi Yates had some good responses once for people "interpreting" his rules for Flames of War. As you mention this is rolled for to see the effectiveness of a crew firing outside of their normal sequence, in this case a roll of one should have resulted in poor shooting.

Mike

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#2 [url]

Nov 24 14 3:40 PM

I agree completely. The rule is pretty straightforward. You always roll on the chart when shooting at a unit that is charging you to see what range you fire at. If the guns had been doing support fire, then they would have fired cannister since they were not the charge target.

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#3 [url]

Nov 24 14 4:26 PM

I did that wrong so let me correct it. The die roll on the chart has absolutely nothing to do with what range you fire at , but has everything to do with how effective your fire is. The guns would have had a -1 for fired previous turn and plus 4 for medium guns firing cannister, for a net plus 3. They did 3 casuaties. This is where the long range roll on the chart takes effect. Because of that roll they only get to do 1/2 casualties. This would have been 1 plus the die roll to see if they get the 2nd one. The maximum number you could have taken is 2. Don't know if that would have made a difference.

Bill

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#4 [url]

Nov 24 14 9:33 PM

After reading page 28, 6.6 - It clearly states in the Note-The range is only used to work out the "Effectiveness" of the guns. So roll and use the distance for the shooting modifier without caring what the charge distance is. As a matter of fact right next to the Die #1 - Fires AS IF at Long Range.

Mike

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#5 [url]

Nov 25 14 1:45 PM

Thanks chaps.  Seems we are 'singing off the same hymn sheet'.  My chaps have conceded that errors were made, but in the heat of battle its easy to mess stuff up when you're not thinking straight.  We've all been there.


It made no difference to the overall battle result as the Prussians got pummelled by Saxons, French and Reichsarmee (very sad smiley: ohwell) .  Revenge is a dish best eaten cold  smiley: smile.

As an aside billf artillery doesn't actually count the -1 modifier for having fired previously last turn.  As far as I can see it only applies to infantry.

Cheers chaps

Kev

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#9 [url]

Dec 1 14 9:44 AM

billf wrote:
We checked with the rules writer about that and he said both infantry and artillery get the -1 for having fired on the previous turn.

A -1 for the artillery is clearly not as written in the rules image I guess an official "Lessons from the forsaken front" is needed.
cheers

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