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Feb 8 17 2:06 AM

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14.9c indicates both platoons close assault as separate combat groups, one after the other.  Is this still simultaneous as per 14.9b?  For example, does the defender resolve the second close assault before the effects of the first close assault are applied against it?  Does the defender get full Defensive Fire against each of the two close assaults?

Thanks,

Gary
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DCRBrown

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#1 [url]

Feb 9 17 1:47 PM

Gary,

The rule refers to the same "activation" - so in a standard close assault both sides fight and inflict casualties simultaneously. (Other than infantry attacking the blind sides of an AFV.)

However if there was a second activation followed by another close assault, then provided the attack came in from the front arc then yes the defenders can fire again, see p 120 13.3 point b) 1. and the close assault is also then resolved, prior to the next activation.

DB

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#2 [url]

Feb 10 17 8:35 PM

Dave,

If I interpret your reply correctly then game play under a Coordinated Infantry Assault order is primarily governed by it's two separate activations. 

If so then could you please verify if the following is correct? 
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A Coordinated Infantry Assault order allows activation of two separate Combat Groups that may Rapid  Advance together into close assault against one target, but each Combat Group's movement and close assault is resolved separately and sequentially.  The first Combat Group's movement and close assault is resolved normally with any valid Defensive Fire and the post-assault effects immediately applied.  Then, the second Combat Group's movement and close assault is resolved normally with any valid Defensive Fire from any surviving defenders.
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The reason for my initial confusion is because of 6.8.8 - Coordinated Infantry Assault. "This order permits two infantry platoons or combat groups to combine for a single close assault."   Also 6.8.8d - "If both are successfully activated they may then move together but using separate 2D6 movement rolls."   

These two rules indicate a single large group comprised of two Combat Groups that move together and enter into a single close assault.  Hence my confusion since this could easily mean only one Defensive Fire vs the whole group followed by 6.8.8's "single close assault" with 14.9b in the background saying "Close assaults are fought simultaneously."  But then 6.8.8f/14.9c indicate both platoons close assault as separate combat groups, one after the other.  That's where I got messed up.  If I disregard the "single close assault" and "move together" and, as per your reply, treat each activation separately then all is well! 

Therefore, I see the main advantage for the attacker to use a Coordinated Infantry Assault order is that it provides secure knowledge in advance (assuming two successful activations) that there will definitely be two close assaults.  If instead the attacker just activates both Combat Groups sequentially using Rapid Advance orders he will not know ahead of time if the second activation will be successful.   

Hope I've got it right this time!

Cheers,

Gary

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DCRBrown

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#3 [url]

Feb 15 17 11:40 AM

Gary,

Sorry, my bad, I didn't realize you were referring to the combat group order "coordinated infantry assault"!smiley: embarassed

These two combat groups move/assault at the same time, undergo one defensive fire opportunity and then fight at the same time, (but they fight as two distinct groups).

Coordinated Infantry Assaults are the exception to rules: 6.8.8f/14.9c. That's why it costs you HQ  Impetus to do it.

Hope that's a little less confusing!

DB

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#4 [url]

Feb 15 17 3:28 PM

Dave,

Ahhhh!  Thank you, it is much clearer now!  Move together, one Defensive Fire, one close assault. 

One more question please, regarding your  "...fight at the same time, (but they fight as two distinct groups)."  When resolving the two assaults one must be performed before the other so are the results from both "overall simultaneous"?

For example, under a coordinated infantry assault order, German platoons 1 and 2 move together and assault a Russian platoon taking a single Defensive Fire. After resolving the close assault for Platoon 1 there are Russian casualties.  Are these results applied to the Russian platoon immediately before resolving the close assault by Platoon 2?  Is so then it is NOT "overall simultaneous."   If the results from Platoon 1's close assault are not immediately applied and the Russian platoon enters the close assault with Platoon 2 at its original strength then it IS "overall simultaneous," with both results only applied after both close assaults are completed.

I guess it boils down to "Is the first result applied immediately or only after both close assaults are completed?
 
Thanks,

Gary

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DCRBrown

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#5 [url]

Feb 16 17 9:20 AM

G,

"Is the first result applied immediately or only after both close assaults are completed?
After. All platoons fight "simultaneously". Both German platoons would roll their respective 2D6 and obtain their individual results - and then both results are applied at the same time.

In your example the Russian platoon, of four sections rolls and scores 7, inflicting  one dispersal and one suppression. Before allocating these casualties, the German players two platoons now both roll. One German platoon, now down to 3 sections, scores 6, so inflicts 2 suppressions. The remaining German platoon of 4 sections scores 10, so two dispersal's and another suppression. So in all the Russian platoon takes 2 x dispersal results and 3 x suppression result. The German player may decide where to allocate his casualties.

DB


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#6 [url]

Feb 16 17 3:26 PM

Dave,

Now abundantly clear and so simple that I don't know why I couldn't see it to begin with!  Two German dice rolls and one Russian dice roll (all with appropriate mods) and then apply casualties.  Got it!

Our next scenario will be a high density dogfight for Hall 6 of the Barrikady Factory, almost all close assaults. Our group has overlooked the Coordinated Infantry Assault Order in our previous scenarios, probably because the opportunity was less since they were lower density scenarios, plus we didn't take the time to really understand how the order worked. With this "new information" I believe it will be an important factor in our next scenario. It really is a powerful order and cheap at 1 Impetus!   

Thanks again for your help,

Gary

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